Archive for March, 2007

What am I learning from the M_how situation?

Saturday, March 31st, 2007

So today I got a call from M_how, trying to update me on the situation.  It now appears like we might be getting screwed after all. Well really M_how seems to be in danger of getting screwed.  Let me try and describe M_how’s situation first.

 

When we originally started the company he was funding everything himself, from what appears to be some savings from money hes making on an electronic voting patent, his consultant work (tech stuff), and a sale of some real estate, or maybe a 2nd mortgage takin out?  The first thing I noticed wrong was that the expenditures were getting out of hand, you have to limit the miscelaneous expenditures.  Even if at the time it seems like you may have no cashflow problems in the future, you have to minimize all expenditures to ensure success given problems in the future.  Bad spending = no cash.  Every purchase needs to be accounted for and planned.  Maybe each expenditure should be compared to the company vision? Is this on target with our vision? Is this on target for our plan for success? Is this going to give us momentum for success in the future?  Products should be worked on that only provide immediate momentum to the company.  With a small company, it seems like your first goal would be to make it a “WORKING” company, something that can support its own generation of revenue and cashflow.  What we should have done, is planned out a first product, something that applies to a general market, something we can use to start generating cashflow for further projects.  Do not rely on personal equity forever, because remember that equity will eventually run out.  M_how real estate deals ,etc.

 

Overall why is it failing? -not having a direct goal and plan for cashflow? Funding?

Mastermind

Thursday, March 29th, 2007

Woke up this “morning” (1pm) to about 50 new emails in my box.  Looks like my bosses had come back to their emails and dilgently responded to each one I sent out.  I also had a bunch of support emails to handle as this aspect of the business has been moved over to me as Rob wasnt getting paid to do it.  I want to get more involved in the job, and learn all about the business and how its running.  I should also dedicate some time every night to writing about what I learned at work, and what I think is making things better, or worse.  This will provide a resource for myself in the future when making decisions, running my own company, etc.  I think Rob’s logistical planning skills are excellent, and he has great creative ideas for solving solutions with tech/forums, etc.  His idea of a global forum of artists that is all accessed together, is great for compounding email lists etc.  The stuff we write as sales copy is probably not very effective as no one in the company really knows what were doing in that regard.  Hopefully we can get enough products out there to sustain the company, where we can work on getting our bootcamps going. This should generate alot more loyal costumers as we can make concrete memories in their head and drastic improvements.

Today was also a mastermind meeting where Amit brought in Rob.  I didn’t expect him to be just brought in like he was, but I guess he was an original invite that didn’t show up… but so was Bj.  Overall I liked the guy and didnt want to cause conflict already so I didnt say anything.  I still think it was probably not a good idea to bring someone in, without asking anyone, voting etc.  I really hope this mastermind group works out and people put the effort and motivation necessary into getting the things done.  I’ve really noticed how little people take action int heir lives and this can be a serious advantage I have is the ability to take action on my ideas, and my responsibilty for my own actions.  The mastermind meeting was really short due to Nick being late and the original environment being too loud, we ended up relocating to Mikes and starting.  I wasn’t too worried about NIck being late as Im sure he had a good reason, I just hope people learn to put alot more value into the meetings.  If they knew Angelina Jolie was going to be there, would they miss the meeting? So really its a matter of how much value you assign to it. How much do you believe it will add to your life?

 

After teh mastermind I went over to Amit’s place to “discuss” some ideas, talk about things further.  He mentioned that he wanted to explore the book idea with me some more, see if we could actually get something into action.  He’s currently writing a book of his own on humor so I think it would be best to let him get through that.  Neither of us are extremely competent writers so It’s probably best we just used this time to improve our writing skills.  As anyone reading this - (I don’t send this blog to anyone!) can tell I have horrible writing skills!  Thats what I get for cheating my way through english the entire school system…. now if I want to learn how to write I have to pay for it!  Nice one jason! Anyways I spent some time motivating Amit into thinking about some ideas for the business ideas I had.  I had an idea for a model of a way to make money, but what we are really missing is very essential.  A identifiable and reachable market, and a product that can be offered through the dvd/video medium.  The best type of product, the one im familiar with, would be an information or instructional related Dvd.  I mentioned how after creating the product, if we found a way of generating email leads, we could teach a outsourced indian laborer to do it for us cheap, and create a relatively self sustaining method of income.  It’s definately a goal of mine to increase the amount of passive income in my life, as passive income will lead to flexibility.  I am thinking of implementing a habit in my life where I write down everytime someone says “I wish they had” or “I wish there was…”  I need to record every want that people have, and learn to identify business opportunities in groups of people.  It would also be beneficial to try and list every hobby I can think of, every stereotype of people, just list all types of demographics, markets, types of people, nerds, computer programmers, active lifestyle people, etc.

Then I could go through and write about each stereotype, demographic, and try and figure out the needs or wants of each of the demographics.  After we generated some ideas of some things they want, we could use basic statistical polling to see if our assumptions were correct.  After this its all about identifying if there is a way to present this through the medium we can provide.

It would probably benefit me to write about all of the areas im proficient in, things im interested in, so I can have a list of subjects to work off of, where I will be a little more knowledgeable.  It would also be beneficial for me to learn about generating email lists.  What free content, or how could I persuade people to go to a site, what value can I offer in exchange for an email?  How do pros generate email list?  How much and how effective are the purchaseable lists?  Is it necessary to have opt in lists, only for legal reasons?  It would be nice to be able to teach a method for email list generation, and get enough email leads to warrant paying someone else to do it (outsource).

 What skillsets would benefit my goals of having passive income? Sales copy writing? Internet marketing? Product development? Product launch? Marketing Skills? Video skills? Improving my ability to film, produce, edit? Create motion graphics?  It would be nice to develop a list of skills that would overlap in its benefits to my different goals in life.  This would have to come after generating my vision of my life.  Im really excited about the camping trip we’ll take where we dedicate our time to imagining, and planning out our life.

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Tuesday, March 27th, 2007

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Changing who I am

Monday, March 26th, 2007

It kinda sucks that I often am changing who I am, or things about me or my personality to fit with other people.  In a way my personality is a very fluid concept, I add and subtract things as I use fit, often not finding harm in using deception to imply something.  I’ve slowly mastered the art of making people arrive to a conclusion without me actually saying it.  This is definately a fine art, and something I’d like to work at more in the future.  In some ways I wonder if its Debilitating to me… conforming to others views, to other peoples realities.  It can’t be all that amazing for my ego/self confidence.  It could also be harmful in the things I pretend to be.  When I pretend to do drugs, to help network with people who do drugs?  Pretend to drink, when everyones drinking?  Who cares? Why don’t I just carry a water? Why a dietcoke in a small glass?

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Saturday, March 24th, 2007

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Memories

Saturday, March 24th, 2007

Just wanted to remind myself to type about the good ole days in maryland playing in the creek with friends, chris, justin, taking walks to the karate centre or more importantly the chinese food place or video store, gas station up the corner.  There was also a walmart real close.  Remember playing little league and being the catcher and getting hit in the shins.  Remember New jersey and being so scared to ride on a sled, remember falling on skis in new jersey and being to scared to get up.  Alot of not having faith inmyself or my abilities.  I believe im smart and motivated now, I can do what I want.  Bo invited me to hike up a mountain iwth jason nguyen him and others.  Get name of mountain from brian to look up difficulty.  Remember playign in the snow, and the husky.  Remember playing fight and hitting somoen with my bo staff.  Remember poking keith in the eye with the bostaff with a glove on the end.  Remember shocking keith with the electric razor I took apart.  Remember everyone coming home late and I used to sell snacks to neighborhood kids.  Remember getting the playboy with the pictures cut out.  Remember being mesmerized by naked girls in the playboy etc, getting caught by the principal…  Stealing stuff from stores, stealing pages out of magazines, shoving stuff down my pants

Remember doing magic shows, practicing magic all the time, remember doing a show at the magic store and crying in front of one of the magicians.  Remember working at the magic store teaching people tricks, or showing effects.  Remember being told i was too good for the learning session, and being taught the rubberband handcuffs trick.  Remember seeing david copperfield with mom, where she squealed and he looked at her, when he turned a rose into a flower.  Remember Kenny and his family.  Remember staying at their house for a bit? Remember having stinkbombs, remember adrian and riding gokarts, remember listenting to green day in the hotel as i was leaving for cali, remember listenting to bush because of the kid in class, who told you he worried about his posture because his dad was in the military. Remember having a crush on Molly, Remember being in love with Anna Funk, Remember when the girl on Dmitri’s cheerleading squad, who found out you liked her, and came to talk to you ….. but you were too nervous too broke down to even talk to her.  Remember her saying your cute.  Remember playing magic the gathering.  Remember playing in the library, and with chris (when you first bought the set).  Remember playing the video games on the disk computer, remember sneaking into dads computer room. Remember using prodigy to get online.  Remember having the window right near the ground so i could sneak out and not really using it.  Remember steven and playing nintendo at his house, and going to the hockey games with his family.  remember justin?? down the street… remember the rain in maryland and wearing starters jackets.  Remember How excited i would get by simple things, how I could keep myself entertained in my room for hours.  Remember being so fascinated with magic.  Remember playin basketball and sucking.  Remember playing baseball and being decent.  Remember learning to play catch with dad in the backyard.  Remember the pool in the backyard, remember Chris Freeze chasing you around with a deer leg.  Remember his deaf family, and sisters.  Remember his dad saying “GAK”.  Remember my birthday party where I think almost everyone bailed? Ask mom about this.  Remember the birthday party in the pool and trying to get all the coins in teh water.  Remember crying or feeling sad for yourself for some reason on your birthday.  Remember Chris coming late because of football. 

People to remember

Friday, March 23rd, 2007

 People that taught or are teaching classes/seminars at SDSU.

Instructor: John Spiers has been involved in every phase of import/export buying and selling since 1974. He has been self-employed since 1984, trading goods and services worldwide, and enjoys sharing his experience and tips with people interested in developing their own world trade business.  Class on importing business.

Instructor: William Flood is a small business consultant, speaker, and the owner of a small business training firm. He has conducted training seminars for over 15 years, reaching over 35,000 students. He has extensive experience working with home-based businesses in such diverse areas as mail order, consulting, import/export, e-commerce, and real estate investing. A dedicated entrepreneur, he regularly works as a volunteer counselor for the Maryland Small Business Development Center, and was nominated in 1991 for the Small Business Administration’s Young Entrepreneur of the Year award. He holds a master’s degree from the University of Delaware.  Class on starting a consulting practice.

Instructor: Ken Clark, small business programs coordinator for the Small Business International Trade Center and the 2003 U.S. Small Business Administration Financial Advocate of the Year.  Class on starting a small business.

Instructor: Janet Underwood holds a bachelor’s degree and has more than ten years of experience as a senior technical writer for major corporations such as Sprint, Fortis Benefits, and DST. She has also developed courseware for NASA, Squibb Diagnostics, AT&T, and the U.S. Army.  Technical Writing class.

Ideas from Talk with Ian

Friday, March 23rd, 2007
ORBITAL 264 (4:36:17 PM): whats going down tonight amigo
ORBITAL 264 (4:36:21 PM): know any partays?
ORBITAL 264 (4:36:45 PM): im hanging with dan tonight, and i want to see if i can help him in being cool and congruent around college peeps / party situations
BetterOffAloneSB (4:40:26 PM): hahah
BetterOffAloneSB (4:40:29 PM): that pick up guy
ORBITAL 264 (4:41:28 PM): ya
ORBITAL 264 (4:41:30 PM): hes actually a good guy
ORBITAL 264 (4:41:44 PM): im going to tell him everytime he does something wrong or when i notice a wierd social feeling
BetterOffAloneSB (4:42:06 PM): haha
BetterOffAloneSB (4:42:08 PM): ill tell him
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:11 PM): i know you will
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:14 PM): that will be good shit
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:20 PM): its kinda like a party guy in training
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:23 PM): how cool would it be
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:25 PM): if we could make him chill in all situations
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:36 PM): im just gonna be blunt, we have a good relationship
BetterOffAloneSB (4:42:42 PM): fuck that lets make him do ridic shit and tell him its cool
BetterOffAloneSB (4:42:45 PM): it will be hilarious
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:48 PM): He has balls of steel
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:50 PM): he will do anything
ORBITAL 264 (4:42:58 PM): if i tell him to grab a girls ass he will do it
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:02 PM): nah hes a nice guy
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:11 PM): like as a friend he would do anything to help you, one my most trusted friends oddly enough
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:17 PM): its good practice
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:19 PM): if this is successful
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:21 PM): we could make a business
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:43 PM): “learn how to be fuckin cool with ian and jason”
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:46 PM): shit
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:48 PM): lets write what we do
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:50 PM): and write a book
BetterOffAloneSB (4:43:50 PM): hahah
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:51 PM): sell it online
BetterOffAloneSB (4:43:52 PM): ok
ORBITAL 264 (4:43:54 PM): and make him market it
BetterOffAloneSB (4:43:56 PM): ill fuck with this kid
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:00 PM): nah dont fuck with him
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:03 PM): i want to actually help him
BetterOffAloneSB (4:44:34 PM): oh
BetterOffAloneSB (4:44:37 PM): well thats no fun
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:39 PM): Think about the possibilities, we take on this mission and write about everything we told him to do
(the only thing is, hes done all of his own transitioning, we need to take on someone who is a real dork)
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:41 PM): how we did it
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:46 PM): start it as a blog
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:49 PM): turn it into a cheapass book
ORBITAL 264 (4:44:57 PM): and sell it to high school students and college freshman who want to fit in
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:04 PM): thats everyones fucking worry during those times
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:13 PM): Shit i just thought of this
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:19 PM): but i think i might actually do it
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:21 PM): it makes sense
BetterOffAloneSB (4:45:22 PM): not anyone with common sense
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:31 PM): Anyone thats already cool doesnt think it
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:35 PM): but theres way more uncool than cool
ORBITAL 264 (4:45:41 PM): shit im writing this down
BetterOffAloneSB (4:48:20 PM): go for it
BetterOffAloneSB (4:48:24 PM): make money off those chumps
ORBITAL 264 (4:48:31 PM): man you have gotten evil my friend
BetterOffAloneSB (4:48:38 PM): iw ould love to take their money
BetterOffAloneSB (4:48:48 PM): note evil
ORBITAL 264 (4:48:49 PM): thats the path to poverty if you ask me
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:06 PM): I like the perspective of Id like them DIEING to give me their money for the VALUE im offering them
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:17 PM): Dude im so ready to do some online shit
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:21 PM): these videos I made
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:22 PM): for the company
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:25 PM): i made them all by myself
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:30 PM): with BARELY any internet marketing
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:36 PM): we are grossing like 200k off one product
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:41 PM): 200 thousand dollars bro
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:50 PM): and I MADE the entire thing
ORBITAL 264 (4:49:54 PM): that means there is possibility
BetterOffAloneSB (4:50:11 PM): no way
BetterOffAloneSB (4:50:12 PM): im in
ORBITAL 264 (4:50:37 PM): whats funny is hardly put any work into this shit
ORBITAL 264 (4:50:43 PM): imagine if i made something like really good
BetterOffAloneSB (4:50:45 PM): now im listengin
ORBITAL 264 (4:50:59 PM): weak you should always be listenting
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:01 PM): your my main man
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:06 PM): i always wanna do my shit with you
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:11 PM): but your always on the low low
BetterOffAloneSB (4:51:11 PM): im jk
BetterOffAloneSB (4:51:18 PM): you know im in on all your schemes
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:30 PM): theres even more possibility
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:33 PM): with nick’s constant growth
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:38 PM): hes in internet marketing dude
ORBITAL 264 (4:51:40 PM): what a hook
BetterOffAloneSB (4:52:19 PM): well i can build the site
ORBITAL 264 (4:52:19 PM): im thinking if I get a one good graphic designer, one great backend guy, one lawyer, and one
internet marketer, my fucking team is set
ORBITAL 264 (4:52:28 PM): all i gotta do is generate ideas and products
ORBITAL 264 (4:52:36 PM): Do we have any lawyer friends?
ORBITAL 264 (4:52:45 PM): Lol your trippin im always doin shit
ORBITAL 264 (4:53:57 PM): im all about taking cuts
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:00 PM): off people dedicated to their projects
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:03 PM): some may not go anywhere
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:04 PM): some may
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:11 PM): what you gotta realized
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:17 PM): is that one person is dedicated to their success
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:21 PM): and you make money off all their motivation
ORBITAL 264 (4:54:23 PM): its cool shit
Additional Mind Trails to go:  Get girls to help with transitioning a guy, Fashion, Grooming, Hygeine
Alliances with sororitys, fraternities ? 2e? Ask a popular fraternity who they think the most popular person is, coolest person, etc.? Why?
Look at it as a study? As a book being written? Get letters of intent from publishers?
Research what other books there are in this area? What are the good advice, bad advice?
Take areas and question the popular people to see what they think?
Observe party situations, take notes
Sponsorships?
Business in making people cool?
Do you feel like you dont fit in?
Ebook? Real published Book? Alliances with pickup companies? Real Social Dynamics? Juggler?

Having a passion is frustrating

Monday, March 19th, 2007

So today has been one frustrating fucking day.  I spent the better part of my morning argueing with this 19 yr old girl who has become emotionally reactive to the fact that her coachella tickets she just purchased have gone down in value.  It is not my fault that Rage Against the Machine has added more tour dates, dont make me pay for it.  I had to write emails, and reason with people why my Ebay account shouldnt be suspended and hundreds of dollars taken from my Paypal account, all because some nineteen year old is  emotional.  It looks like everything will be okay, as I secured proof that she recieved her tickets, and thus making her non-receipt dispute invalid.  Shes trying to demand money back for stupid reasons, so I’m hoping paypal will just close this whole spiel.  After that Sean proceeded to get online and try and get a rise out of me…. it’s like he wanted to talk to me to piss me off.  This really set me off for the rest of the day, I have been in a bad mood, and I’ve let the negativity take over me.  I’m usually in strength with positivity but I think this is supported by the faith in my friends and family.  When I’m fucked with by the ones I care about, it really changes who I am.   The whole conversation reminded me of the days when Sean would drink into oblivion and then try to reason with me why he has no reason to live.  Its extremely frustrating to try and reason with someone that is irrational, usually one would just give up, but I guess its because I care too much.  Sean proceeded to attack Coachella and my love for the music and the festival.  I never realized how much Coachella REALLY means to me, I felt like he was attacking my family.  I’ve also had to deal with people resenting me for my intense passion/love for Coachella music etc.  I thought by expressing my passion and love for the festival it would help get people to realize what they are missing, and possibly gain some of the best experiences of their lives! (What I gained by finally checking out the festival) But they really seem to view it almost as a taunting, because they believe they can’t come up with the means to have what they want, to go to something like that, or because they are just clouded by the barrier of the money.  Its hard to relate, but I do remember back in the day hearing about the exorbitant price and not understanding why a concert should cost so much.  NOW I understand, its because they provide 10x that value back to you.  I need to learn to stop pushing my reality on others.  I should be assertive in the things that PERSONALLY matter to me, that I REALLY CARE ABOUT, and stop concerning myself with helping other people.  I’m using my aggressive and passionate personality to try and force things onto people I believe will help them.  In the end this hurts them, possibly hurts their ego.  I need to learn to let people live and be who they are and what they want to be.  I can strive for what I want, but only ENCOURAGE and EMPOWER other people to take the things for themselves.  I am also hearing that OAKIE wants to sell his tickets to coachella, leaving me with one less person interested in sharing the condo at coachella.  I’m very worried that I will be left with a big bill, but I need to try and remember what I have above.  I should only EMPOWER and ENCOURAGE.  Maybe I’ll just make sure this is the best party ever, I prepare to make the condo a grand and fun event, and just hope that people are inspired to come.  If  I lose money, I lose money, I need a place to stay.  I cant FORCE people to want the things I want, I can only Encourage, Entice, and Empower them to want it.  I may need to read up on my persuasive skills.

 

My biggest weakness

Monday, March 19th, 2007
ORBITAL 264 (12:28:20 AM): Where do you feel the line is… when your honest opinion can hurt a persons feelings…. but they ask for your opinion? When does something need to be said
ORBITAL 264 (12:28:35 AM): Like where do you know that the possible hurt attached is worth the benefit to the person
r b s m d 8 4 (12:29:48 AM):  hmm
r b s m d 8 4 (12:29:52 AM):  its hard to say
r b s m d 8 4 (12:30:00 AM):  im sure that line varies with the person
ORBITAL 264 (12:35:56 AM): so what about the person says where the line is
ORBITAL 264 (12:36:14 AM): their ability to cope with reality?
ORBITAL 264 (12:36:20 AM): control of their emotions?
ORBITAL 264 (12:36:36 AM): self esteem?
r b s m d 8 4 (12:36:37 AM):  control of their emotions has alot to do with it
ORBITAL 264 (12:37:09 AM): Alright, so i can basically assume that with a man I can always be completely honest, and if it bothers him hes just being irrational/emotional
ORBITAL 264 (12:37:19 AM): and with a woman, i should always worry about what emotion im sending with my remark

BlueHulks side:

ORBITAL 264 (11:42:55 PM): got time to give me a second opinion on a convo, this ones super short
BlueHulk (11:43:00 PM):  sure
ORBITAL 264 (11:43:43 PM): r b s m d 8 4 (11:35:48 PM):  i didnt drink yesterday on st patties
r b s m d 8 4 (11:35:53 PM):  lool
ORBITAL 264 (11:35:54 PM): nor did I
ORBITAL 264 (11:35:58 PM): actually i take that back i had a beer
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:01 PM):  but you went to a bar? lol
ORBITAL 264 (11:36:09 PM): dude i go to bars and dont drink very often
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:37 PM):  thats good
ORBITAL 264 (11:36:41 PM): i guess
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:55 PM):  but the point usually of going to a bar is to drink heh
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:04 PM): really
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:08 PM): then why dont you drink at home?
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:15 PM): with your cheap liquor cabinet?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:24 PM):  you mean
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:27 PM):  why drink at home
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:29 PM): i agree thats a common perception
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:32 PM):  when you can drink with ppl
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:44 PM): no if it was just to drink people would drink at vons
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:55 PM):  you cant drink at vons though
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:58 PM): id say the actual purpose of the bar is to be around other people in the hopes of socializing
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:00 PM):  you can at a bar
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:20 PM):  i think the reason of a bar is to drink. meeting ppl is secondary.
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:24 PM):  you got it mixed up
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:31 PM):  which is prob why you hang out at a bar sober
ORBITAL 264 (11:38:34 PM): ya
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:43 PM):  and that may look bad especially if your looking to meet girls
ORBITAL 264 (11:39:03 PM): ya dont wanna be the loser not drinking
ORBITAL 264 (11:39:15 PM): your not cool unless ya drink
r b s m d 8 4 (11:39:38 PM):  why do to a place where ppl go to drink if you dont want to do it yourself?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:39:53 PM):  if its just to say you have the willpower i guess thats good
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:00 PM): i dont know, why go to a hockey game if i dont want concessions
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:09 PM):  to watch the game?
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:12 PM): exactly
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:15 PM):  yup
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:22 PM):  and you go to a bar to do what exactly?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:24 PM):  drink
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:26 PM): ah seany sean
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:34 PM): somebody is really high?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:35 PM):  its perfect sense really
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:45 PM):  if we took a poll of everyone in the bar
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:01 PM):  do you think more would agree with my fact of going to a bar to have some drinks
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:22 PM):  its common consensus what im saying really
ORBITAL 264 (11:41:33 PM): if we asked the germans in the 1920’s about hitler, they would all say hes the greatest and most honorable man to ever live
ORBITAL 264 (11:41:56 PM): hmm
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:57 PM):  what does history have to do with going to a bar to drink
r b s m d 8 4 (11:42:00 PM):  hjahha
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:04 PM): so i guess that means that hitler was very honorable
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:09 PM): jesus christ
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:12 PM): you have got to be really stoned
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:14 PM): or are fucking with me
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:22 PM): or your an idiot and i never knew it
r b s m d 8 4 (11:42:29 PM):  your comparing apples and oranges
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:37 PM): Hold on one second
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:39 PM): let me get a second opinion
r b s m d 8 4 (11:43:06 PM):  im sure if you asked everyone on a list
r b s m d 8 4 (11:43:10 PM):  what do you go to a bar to do
r b s m d 8 4 (11:43:18 PM):  if the first word out of there mouth isnt drink
r b s m d 8 4 (11:43:33 PM):  then your reasoning for going to a bar and not drinking may be correct
  Previous message was not received by BlueHulk because of error: Too Much Data
ORBITAL 264 (11:43:56 PM): r b s m d 8 4 (11:35:48 PM):  i didnt drink yesterday on st patties
r b s m d 8 4 (11:35:53 PM):  lool
ORBITAL 264 (11:35:54 PM): nor did I
ORBITAL 264 (11:35:58 PM): actually i take that back i had a beer
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:01 PM):  but you went to a bar? lol
ORBITAL 264 (11:36:09 PM): dude i go to bars and dont drink very often
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:37 PM):  thats good
ORBITAL 264 (11:36:41 PM): i guess
r b s m d 8 4 (11:36:55 PM):  but the point usually of going to a bar is to drink heh
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:04 PM): really
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:08 PM): then why dont you drink at home?
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:15 PM): with your cheap liquor cabinet?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:24 PM):  you mean
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:27 PM):  why drink at home
ORBITAL 264 (11:44:08 PM): ORBITAL 264 (11:37:29 PM): i agree thats a common perception
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:32 PM):  when you can drink with ppl
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:44 PM): no if it was just to drink people would drink at vons
r b s m d 8 4 (11:37:55 PM):  you cant drink at vons though
ORBITAL 264 (11:37:58 PM): id say the actual purpose of the bar is to be around other people in the hopes of socializing
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:00 PM):  you can at a bar
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:20 PM):  i think the reason of a bar is to drink. meeting ppl is secondary.
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:24 PM):  you got it mixed up
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:31 PM):  which is prob why you hang out at a bar sober
ORBITAL 264 (11:38:34 PM): ya
r b s m d 8 4 (11:38:43 PM):  and that may look bad especially if your looking to meet girls
ORBITAL 264 (11:39:03 PM): ya dont wanna be the loser not drinking
ORBITAL 264 (11:39:15 PM): your not cool unless ya drink
ORBITAL 264 (11:44:28 PM): r b s m d 8 4 (11:39:38 PM):  why do to a place where ppl go to drink if you dont want to do it yourself?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:39:53 PM):  if its just to say you have the willpower i guess thats good
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:00 PM): i dont know, why go to a hockey game if i dont want concessions
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:09 PM):  to watch the game?
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:12 PM): exactly
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:15 PM):  yup
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:22 PM):  and you go to a bar to do what exactly?
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:24 PM):  drink
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:26 PM): ah seany sean
ORBITAL 264 (11:40:34 PM): somebody is really high?
ORBITAL 264 (11:44:43 PM): r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:35 PM):  its perfect sense really
r b s m d 8 4 (11:40:45 PM):  if we took a poll of everyone in the bar
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:01 PM):  do you think more would agree with my fact of going to a bar to have some drinks
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:22 PM):  its common consensus what im saying really
ORBITAL 264 (11:41:33 PM): if we asked the germans in the 1920’s about hitler, they would all say hes the greatest and most honorable man to ever live
ORBITAL 264 (11:41:56 PM): hmm
r b s m d 8 4 (11:41:57 PM):  what does history have to do with going to a bar to drink
r b s m d 8 4 (11:42:00 PM):  hjahha
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:04 PM): so i guess that means that hitler was very honorable
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:09 PM): jesus christ
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:12 PM): you have got to be really stoned
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:14 PM): or are fucking with me
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:22 PM): or your an idiot and i never knew it
ORBITAL 264 (11:44:59 PM): r b s m d 8 4 (11:42:29 PM):  your comparing apples and oranges
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:37 PM): Hold on one second
ORBITAL 264 (11:42:39 PM): let me get a second opinion
BlueHulk (11:48:48 PM):  so what’s your question about the convo
BlueHulk (11:48:58 PM):  btw the hitler reference is wayyyyyy out of line for this discussion
BlueHulk (11:49:21 PM):  it’s really an emotionally charged issue for a lot of people, especially Jews
ORBITAL 264 (11:49:33 PM): why?
ORBITAL 264 (11:49:45 PM): out of line in that the point i was trying to make was wrong?
BlueHulk (11:49:50 PM):  ummm well
BlueHulk (11:50:21 PM):  well I think comparing bar drinkers to the germans that supported hitler
BlueHulk (11:50:28 PM):  is an odd analogy
BlueHulk (11:50:31 PM):  and apt to make someone defensive
BlueHulk (11:50:33 PM):  whether or not its right
ORBITAL 264 (11:50:40 PM): he was saying that because everyone believed something it was right
ORBITAL 264 (11:50:47 PM): i gave an extreme example of how the common public was wrong
ORBITAL 264 (11:50:51 PM): to refute his statement
BlueHulk (11:50:54 PM):  yeah and extreme analogies rarely work
ORBITAL 264 (11:50:58 PM): why?
ORBITAL 264 (11:51:10 PM): because people cant look past the surface?
ORBITAL 264 (11:51:15 PM): interesting
BlueHulk (11:51:24 PM):  well just cause
BlueHulk (11:51:32 PM):  like since he’s someone that believes that drinking is ok in bars
BlueHulk (11:51:41 PM):  your’e pretty much comparing him to someone who’d let Jews go to the gas chambers
ORBITAL 264 (11:51:48 PM): not at all
ORBITAL 264 (11:51:52 PM): i was comparing his argument
ORBITAL 264 (11:51:59 PM): to that of the argument that all of the germans were right about hitler
BlueHulk (11:52:12 PM):  well I’m just telling you that whethjer or not it’s correct, people are not likely to listen to it
BlueHulk (11:52:15 PM):  and might even be offended
BlueHulk (11:52:28 PM):  when buddha says something like that to me I get pissed
ORBITAL 264 (11:52:37 PM): well that right there
ORBITAL 264 (11:52:48 PM): your emotional attachment to what i said
BlueHulk (11:52:52 PM):  yeah
ORBITAL 264 (11:52:53 PM): is definately uncool
BlueHulk (11:52:54 PM):  but i’ts not just me
ORBITAL 264 (11:52:56 PM): not in your personality
ORBITAL 264 (11:52:58 PM): but that is something
BlueHulk (11:53:03 PM):  I wasn’t bothered by you saying that to him
ORBITAL 264 (11:53:12 PM): hmm
BlueHulk (11:53:14 PM):  but Jews don’t react well to that
BlueHulk (11:53:27 PM):  if you had relatives who were killed in the holocaust I think you’d be the same way
BlueHulk (11:53:54 PM):  there are certain subjects to avoid in debate and Hilter is one of them
BlueHulk (11:53:59 PM):  I mean if it’s the TOPIC
BlueHulk (11:54:00 PM):  then ok
BlueHulk (11:54:04 PM):  but not to bring in as an example
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:10 PM): I have a good friend that was in the holocaust
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:13 PM): but its irrelevant
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:15 PM): what i said
BlueHulk (11:54:16 PM):  yeah
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:16 PM): actually shows
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:21 PM): that i think it was all ridiculous
BlueHulk (11:54:25 PM):  yeah
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:26 PM): because hitler was mentioned jews get offended?
BlueHulk (11:54:33 PM):  well mentioning hitler
BlueHulk (11:54:35 PM):  for somethign so trite
BlueHulk (11:54:37 PM):  as drinking in bars
BlueHulk (11:54:40 PM):  would offend Jews
ORBITAL 264 (11:54:51 PM): ya
BlueHulk (11:54:52 PM):  similar to when mp3s weren’t allowed
BlueHulk (11:54:56 PM):  people were comparing it to nazi germany
BlueHulk (11:54:58 PM):  which was ridiculous
BlueHulk (11:55:01 PM):  but it offended a lot of Jews
ORBITAL 264 (11:55:02 PM): i was trying to think of the biggest example of mass retardedness i could
ORBITAL 264 (11:55:27 PM): I cannot even fathom why they have the right to be offended, besides the fact that they are unwilling to deal with what happened in the past.
ORBITAL 264 (11:55:52 PM): Its like the jews being offended if I started saying something is hitler instead of something is horrible.
BlueHulk (11:56:02 PM):  well first of all
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:03 PM): Im saying that it was the worst thing to ever happen.
BlueHulk (11:56:09 PM):  it’s a negative anchor
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:11 PM): And they are mad?
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:21 PM): Well i understand that people will be people and will be offended by it
BlueHulk (11:56:27 PM):  yeah
BlueHulk (11:56:31 PM):  and that’s reason enough I think to avoid it
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:33 PM): Just like most fat people are offended if you say the word fat
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:42 PM): Sure if I want to tiptoe around ignorance
ORBITAL 264 (11:56:49 PM): i still havent decided if i want too
BlueHulk (11:56:54 PM):  it’s what social vibing is
BlueHulk (11:57:02 PM):  it’s why you dont’ talk too loud in a coffee shop
BlueHulk (11:57:08 PM):  you know this stuff more than anyone
ORBITAL 264 (11:57:13 PM): Nope
ORBITAL 264 (11:57:24 PM): thats social cruising
ORBITAL 264 (11:57:30 PM): well i guess you could call it vibing
ORBITAL 264 (11:57:31 PM): hmm
BlueHulk (11:57:39 PM):  you don’t say thinks you know will offend people if it isn’t necesary
ORBITAL 264 (11:57:43 PM): sure yes its vibing actually
BlueHulk (11:57:48 PM):  if you can easily get around it with another metaphor
BlueHulk (11:57:54 PM):  then it’s unnecessary
BlueHulk (11:58:04 PM):  and no need to do it unles syou just want to throw it in their face that your’e not tiptoeing
BlueHulk (11:58:15 PM):  and an extreme analogy usually shows you can’t think of one more relevant
BlueHulk (11:58:24 PM):  and comes off as a straw man
ORBITAL 264 (11:58:28 PM): extreme analogies prove the point harder, or so I thought
BlueHulk (11:58:36 PM):  they’re not as persuasive
ORBITAL 264 (11:58:38 PM): It recognizes the logic behind their statement
ORBITAL 264 (11:58:45 PM): Why?
BlueHulk (11:58:49 PM):  well this is why
BlueHulk (11:58:51 PM):  one thing is
ORBITAL 264 (11:58:55 PM): Because the extremity of the issue they cant look to the logic?
BlueHulk (11:58:57 PM):  is you make the person more defnsive
BlueHulk (11:58:58 PM):  yeah
BlueHulk (11:59:01 PM):  that’s part of it
BlueHulk (11:59:05 PM):  you put them on the defensive
BlueHulk (11:59:13 PM):  for example
BlueHulk (11:59:22 PM):  suppose I say I dont’ want to wear a tie at the wedding
BlueHulk (11:59:26 PM):  and you say everyone will be wearing a tie
BlueHulk (11:59:34 PM):  and I say “Everyone said blacks shouldn’t vote”
BlueHulk (11:59:42 PM):  then it just sounds like I”m reaching
BlueHulk (12:00:08 AM):  and it kinda implies that with your logic you’d be ok with blacks not voting
BlueHulk (12:00:12 AM):  since you go along with the crowd
BlueHulk (12:00:15 AM):  there are implications with that
BlueHulk (12:00:49 AM):  a better thing
BlueHulk (12:00:59 AM):  would be that if you said everyone will wear a tie there
BlueHulk (12:01:11 AM):  and I said “everyone drinks at bars but doesn’t notice you empty handed every night, I don’t think people will notice”
BlueHulk (12:01:24 AM):  though that’s a different argument, addmittedly
BlueHulk (12:01:27 AM):  so
BlueHulk (12:01:33 AM):  if you picked some dumb thing masses agreed with
BlueHulk (12:01:34 AM):  at state
BlueHulk (12:01:38 AM):  it would make some sense
BlueHulk (12:01:46 AM):  and it wouldn’t set them on the defensive
BlueHulk (12:02:21 AM):  plus mentioning an extreme example makes it sound like you’re more emotionally attached to the argument than you are, like if you mention matters of life and death it sounds like you think the matter is life and death
BlueHulk (12:04:17 AM):  also one more thing, the argument was a bit off because he said “Most people would say they go to bars to drink” and you said “Most people in 1920’s said Hitler was the man”, the first situation is why people think they do something, and the second is what people think is a good dictator
ORBITAL 264 (12:04:43 AM): ya thats because he changed his language

BlueHulk (12:04:53 AM):  hmm
ORBITAL 264 (12:04:58 AM): completely right there
ORBITAL 264 (12:05:10 AM): but it was an understood part of the conversation
ORBITAL 264 (12:05:38 AM): the original argument was that because people think that the only purpose of a bar is to drink, that that is the purpose of a bar
ORBITAL 264 (12:05:59 AM): he changes his words often to try and win an argument by changing his argument
ORBITAL 264 (12:06:11 AM): so its something i always ignore…
BlueHulk (12:06:13 AM):  ahhh
ORBITAL 264 (12:06:17 AM): but ya your totally right
BlueHulk (12:06:27 AM):  and btw
BlueHulk (12:06:30 AM):  I think if you asked most people
BlueHulk (12:06:36 AM):  do you come primarily to drink or socialize
BlueHulk (12:06:40 AM):  they’d pick the second one
ORBITAL 264 (12:06:45 AM): really?
BlueHulk (12:06:47 AM):  yeah for sure
ORBITAL 264 (12:06:50 AM): i think theyd say drink
ORBITAL 264 (12:06:52 AM): interesting
BlueHulk (12:07:00 AM):  that’s why guys avoid sausage parties
BlueHulk (12:07:02 AM):  or look for girls
BlueHulk (12:07:06 AM):  or leave if it’s dead
BlueHulk (12:07:10 AM):  overtly
ORBITAL 264 (12:08:26 AM): interesting
ORBITAL 264 (12:08:28 AM): rad
BlueHulk (12:09:44 AM):  I didn’t finish through magic bullets
BlueHulk (12:09:49 AM):  I have way too much theory in front of me
ORBITAL 264 (12:09:51 AM): and what you said above makes sense
BlueHulk (12:09:52 AM):  not enough game time
ORBITAL 264 (12:09:54 AM): im gonna send this to my logic teacher
BlueHulk (12:09:56 AM):  ahh cool
ORBITAL 264 (12:10:10 AM): mind if i copy your convo as well?
BlueHulk (12:10:17 AM):  no problem
BlueHulk (12:10:30 AM):  I would have liked to take more philo courses
BlueHulk (12:10:38 AM):  U. Rochester had a good department in that
BlueHulk (12:10:49 AM):  they had like one of the top 2 religion departments too
BlueHulk (12:10:55 AM):  but I wasn’t interested in religion so much back then
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:03 AM): one think i should definately recognize you on is your point about it seeming that i cant make a better argument by using an extreme
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:09 AM): i actually never thought of that
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:17 AM): but because ignorant people often use extremes in the wrong way
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:26 AM): that totally would be an assumption
BlueHulk (12:11:31 AM):  yeah
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:39 AM): i never ever thought of that
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:45 AM): because I can definately make a good argument
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:49 AM): but ive always opted for extremes
BlueHulk (12:11:52 AM):  for sure
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:54 AM): for the concise and impact of the logic
ORBITAL 264 (12:11:57 AM): but that might not be right
ORBITAL 264 (12:12:19 AM): shitballs
BlueHulk (12:12:34 AM):  well now you know
ORBITAL 264 (12:12:38 AM): im so becoming my dad, i need to learn how to stop this
BlueHulk (12:12:43 AM):  how so?
ORBITAL 264 (12:12:47 AM): today i went out with my mom
ORBITAL 264 (12:12:58 AM): and im worried about her naturally, i want her to be healthy, find romance etc.
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:27 AM): So i found myself saying stuff like your teeth seem yellower (in my logic giving her reason to take better care of herself)
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:34 AM): but the really EFFECTIVE way
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:35 AM): would have been
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:39 AM): to compliment her on her smile
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:47 AM): trying to empower her to do something to keep it good, even if it wasnt
ORBITAL 264 (12:13:48 AM): i dont know
BlueHulk (12:13:54 AM):  dude
BlueHulk (12:14:00 AM):  yeah
BlueHulk (12:14:08 AM):  you never want to tell someone their teeth look yellower
ORBITAL 264 (12:14:11 AM): thats shit my dad has never gotten, and does all the time
ORBITAL 264 (12:14:26 AM): and it worked in influencing me, but i cant assume it works anywhere else
BlueHulk (12:14:30 AM):  yeah
BlueHulk (12:14:35 AM):  I mean first of all
BlueHulk (12:14:39 AM):  how yellow your teeth are
ORBITAL 264 (12:14:48 AM): basically ive learned hardline negotiation influence techniques for law and order ( my dad was a top special investigator and negotiator)
BlueHulk (12:14:50 AM):  has little to do with you taking care of yourself
BlueHulk (12:15:07 AM):  yeah, you want to be softer
ORBITAL 264 (12:15:08 AM): taking care of your teeth, gums?
BlueHulk (12:15:15 AM):  steel fist in a velvet glove
BlueHulk (12:15:16 AM):  well
ORBITAL 264 (12:15:17 AM): Its very obvious that i was too harsh, and stupid
BlueHulk (12:15:24 AM):  your teeth can get yellow for a variety of reasons
BlueHulk (12:15:29 AM):  like I’ve never had a cavity
BlueHulk (12:15:31 AM):  brushed every day
BlueHulk (12:15:36 AM):  yet I’ve had to whiten my teeth
BlueHulk (12:15:43 AM):  just casue of how it naturally gets less bright
ORBITAL 264 (12:15:51 AM): You brush well every day? (im not doubting you but taking out a argument in my head)
BlueHulk (12:15:57 AM):  yeah
BlueHulk (12:15:59 AM):  dude
ORBITAL 264 (12:16:01 AM): Hmm
BlueHulk (12:16:03 AM):  I first use mouthwash
BlueHulk (12:16:07 AM):  then floss
BlueHulk (12:16:18 AM):  then use a gum scraperthing for the edge
BlueHulk (12:16:23 AM):  then brush with an electric toothbrush
BlueHulk (12:16:28 AM):  sometimes I skip a step
BlueHulk (12:16:30 AM):  after a long day
BlueHulk (12:16:37 AM):  but always multiprocess
BlueHulk (12:16:39 AM):  and ALWAYS floss
ORBITAL 264 (12:16:42 AM): i just started finally getting my habits in order, so im not coming from a place of righteousness btw, but after i started my habits my teeth dramatically reduced its yellow… so thats where i was coming from
BlueHulk (12:16:49 AM):  ahh
BlueHulk (12:16:52 AM):  well you might have had staining
BlueHulk (12:16:53 AM):  did you smoke?
ORBITAL 264 (12:16:54 AM): interesting
ORBITAL 264 (12:16:59 AM): no
BlueHulk (12:17:02 AM):  hmm I don’t know
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:07 AM): so what causes the yellow any idea
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:23 AM): yup so my logic was completely wrong, and a stupid way to try to influence
BlueHulk (12:17:27 AM):  yeah
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:30 AM): I was in teh car thinking
BlueHulk (12:17:30 AM):  plsu for someone that’s aging
BlueHulk (12:17:34 AM):  it can be really hurtful
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:36 AM): ya no shit
BlueHulk (12:17:39 AM):  I say stupid shit sometimes too
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:39 AM): i felt like crap
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:43 AM): i actually went and got her flowers online
BlueHulk (12:17:45 AM):  it’s actually coming out more often
ORBITAL 264 (12:17:46 AM): and sent them anonymously
BlueHulk (12:17:50 AM):  my problem is right now
BlueHulk (12:17:53 AM):  I’md saying asshole shit in bars
BlueHulk (12:17:56 AM):  and getting away with it
BlueHulk (12:18:00 AM):  cause I”m unreactive and confident
BlueHulk (12:18:03 AM):  so I can say something mean to a girl
BlueHulk (12:18:06 AM):  and she’ll qualify herself to me
BlueHulk (12:18:17 AM):  but not say go away
BlueHulk (12:18:32 AM):  it’s like a little evil me inside trying to come out
BlueHulk (12:18:38 AM):  it just comes out of my mouth sometimes
ORBITAL 264 (12:18:47 AM): can you do me a favor and try and point out when i do something like this in the future? if you think about it let me know
ORBITAL 264 (12:18:49 AM): i really have to stop this
ORBITAL 264 (12:19:00 AM): i need to learn to positively reinforce what i watn to build in people
BlueHulk (12:19:19 AM):  you’ve only sometimes said something to me that I didn’t think was good to say
BlueHulk (12:19:21 AM):  but it’s rare
BlueHulk (12:19:43 AM):  I haven’t seen you as much around other people so I dont’ know
ORBITAL 264 (12:19:45 AM): ya, but i think i do it more the longer im friends with people
ORBITAL 264 (12:20:05 AM): im scared that when i become more comfortable with strangers it will come out
BlueHulk (12:20:18 AM):  I guess you just gotta take note of what you said and release
BlueHulk (12:20:23 AM):  just not worry about it
BlueHulk (12:20:27 AM):  but when it happens, take notice
ORBITAL 264 (12:20:32 AM): definately
ORBITAL 264 (12:21:00 AM): really if you point out something socially seen as bad, even with good intentions, its negative right
BlueHulk (12:21:17 AM):  oh dude
BlueHulk (12:21:20 AM):  that’s one thing my dad told me
BlueHulk (12:21:27 AM):  that’s rung true
BlueHulk (12:21:45 AM):  if you see someone at a party who missed a spot shaving
BlueHulk (12:21:48 AM):  let someone else tell him
BlueHulk (12:22:04 AM):  or if you see someone with toilet paper on the bottom of his shoe
BlueHulk (12:22:08 AM):  better to let someone else comment
BlueHulk (12:22:12 AM):  cause even though you did something nice
BlueHulk (12:22:18 AM):  he might associate the bad feelings of embarassement with you
BlueHulk (12:22:29 AM):  of course with friends it’s completely different
BlueHulk (12:22:40 AM):  especially like in the community if you count on each other for that stuff
ORBITAL 264 (12:23:16 AM): fuck i feel like im hiding myself doing that
BlueHulk (12:23:29 AM):  it’s hard, but it’s part of life
ORBITAL 264 (12:23:35 AM): i think this is the root concept of my major weakness
ORBITAL 264 (12:24:11 AM): hmmmm
ORBITAL 264 (12:24:12 AM): jesus
ORBITAL 264 (12:24:16 AM): my head is spinning
ORBITAL 264 (12:25:07 AM): because basically i was really passive always worrying how things came off to people, then i went the opposite and just said what i honestly felt, saw , or thought, because i knew i was coming from good intentions
ORBITAL 264 (12:25:10 AM): but its a balance
ORBITAL 264 (12:25:15 AM): and i dont know how to find it  just yet
ORBITAL 264 (12:25:20 AM): ive always been a either or kinda guy
BlueHulk (12:25:38 AM):  yeah
BlueHulk (12:25:40 AM):  it’s finding it
BlueHulk (12:25:41 AM):  I’m the same way
BlueHulk (12:25:47 AM):  with other things
BlueHulk (12:25:52 AM):  like I”m always either eating massive junk food
BlueHulk (12:25:59 AM):  or working out and eating like a pro athlete
BlueHulk (12:26:05 AM):  and I’m finding a middle between those
ORBITAL 264 (12:26:06 AM): is the balance basically, that you say whats honest only if it affects you? otherwise you think about how it might affect their feelings?
BlueHulk (12:26:49 AM):  the balance is saying something when it needs to be said, or if it will help you, while always keeping integrity to your word.
ORBITAL 264 (12:26:50 AM): or if you have a relationship established like we do
BlueHulk (12:26:59 AM):  I think you should never lie
BlueHulk (12:27:09 AM):  like if a guy says how do you like the suit
ORBITAL 264 (12:27:10 AM): ya but that needs to be said is the line im trying to establish
BlueHulk (12:27:19 AM):  I don’t think you should be brutal
BlueHulk (12:27:26 AM):  but you can always say something like “Looks better on you than me!”
BlueHulk (12:27:29 AM):  soemthing that doesn’t answer
ORBITAL 264 (12:29:19 AM): i guess the problem is i just dont get those subtle hints
ORBITAL 264 (12:29:29 AM): im so not as socially clued in as i thought
ORBITAL 264 (12:30:07 AM): Duh
ORBITAL 264 (12:30:09 AM): if they dont directly answer
ORBITAL 264 (12:30:15 AM): they probably think the answer will negatively affect me
ORBITAL 264 (12:30:19 AM): therefore it was that option
BlueHulk (12:31:07 AM):  hmm you mean if you ask people that?
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:09 AM): but then if i know that, its still as hurtful as if saying it?
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:19 AM): ya
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:23 AM): taking your suit example
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:27 AM): you dont actually answer
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:34 AM): which would only imply NO it doesnt look good
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:39 AM): but if i know that
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:44 AM): isnt that the same as actually saying NO?
ORBITAL 264 (12:31:56 AM): I guess not, because you dont have the concrete negative emotions behind saying NO
BlueHulk (12:32:04 AM):  well
BlueHulk (12:32:10 AM):  well he might not pick up on it
BlueHulk (12:32:14 AM):  usually don’t
BlueHulk (12:32:18 AM):  actually what it shows
BlueHulk (12:32:22 AM):  is you dont’ have much of an opinion on it
ORBITAL 264 (12:33:26 AM): hmm
ORBITAL 264 (12:33:55 AM): btw
ORBITAL 264 (12:34:03 AM): what do you think about me buying flowers for my mom and sending them anonymously
ORBITAL 264 (12:34:16 AM): i was basically trying to make myself feel better
ORBITAL 264 (12:34:26 AM): so i might be clouded in if thats actually a positive thing to do
ORBITAL 264 (12:35:05 AM): I felt like sending it anonymously like it was from another person would basically be encouraging her to feel shes beautiful etc.
ORBITAL 264 (12:35:20 AM): kindof making up for the stupidity of my remark
BlueHulk (12:36:52 AM):  yeah she’ll still be mad at you though
BlueHulk (12:37:01 AM):  did the flowers have a note?
ORBITAL 264 (12:37:39 AM): ya
ORBITAL 264 (12:37:40 AM): I wrote
ORBITAL 264 (12:37:52 AM): “Because a beautiful woman deserves beautiful things.”